The Billy Boys - Hello Hello - Fakten

Die jüngste Rassismus und "sectarianism" Debatte, wie auch die Anordnung der UEFA im August 2019 dreht sich in erster Linie um diesen Song, wie auch "FTP", ein Kürzel für "F@ck The Pope".

Platzhalter: Dazu schreibe ich noch etwas.

Die UEFA wurde auf das Lied 2006 während eines Spiels gegen Villareal aufmerksam. Es gab eine Anhörung und man befand, daß das Lied zwar unschön sei, aber in Schottland seit Jahren von Fußball- wie öffentlichen Behörden geduldet. Also anerkeannt und deshalb muss sich die UEFA nicht drum kümmern.
Doch eingedenk vieler grau-gürner Proteste legte der UEFA-Beobachter bei dem Spiel Berufung gegen dieses Urteil seiner eigenen Organisation ein.

Zusammenfassung:

Zitat

Rangers fined after Uefa appeal

Zitat

Rangers have been fined £13,300 for the conduct of their supporters during the Champions League tie with Villarreal.
Uefa originally found Rangers fans not guilty of disciminatory chants but that decision was challenged by disciplinary inspector Gerhard Kapl.

The governing body had said it could not tackle sectarianism because it was a particularly Scottish social problem.

But Rangers have now been "severely warned" about their responsibility for any future misconduct of their fans.

Rangers issued a statement saying: "Rangers Football Club is disappointed by the decision by Uefa's appeals body not to uphold the original verdict of the control and disciplinary body.

"The appeals body has concluded that Rangers fans were guilty of discriminatory chanting at both legs of the Champions League matches against Villarreal.

"The club and its legal advisors put forward a strong case highlighting the important intiatives Rangers is taking to tackle sectarianism, racism and other forms of inappropriate behaviour which were complimented by the chairman of the appeals body Michel Wuilleret.

"The decision by Uefa should be seen as a strong warning to the minority of supporters whose inappropriate behaviour brings the club into serious disrepute.

"The controlling authorities in football will be monitoring closely any future misconduct by supporters in relation to sectarian and discriminatory behaviour.

"Rangers Football Club does not intend to take this appeal any further."

Austrian official Kapl, who compiled evidence during Rangers' matches against Villarreal, had recommended a £25,000 fine and the closure of a stand at Ibrox.

Rangers were fined £9,000 after a window on the Villarreal team bus was smashed ahead of the second leg of the Champions League tie in Spain.

Alles anzeigen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/5011404.stm

Das Urteil der UEFA

Zitat von UEFA

Reasons for Rangers decision
Thursday 13 April 2006 by
UEFA has issued the reasoning behind its decision against Rangers FC.

UEFA has issued the reasoning behind its disciplinary decision against Scottish club Rangers FC, announced yesterday.

Fined for incidents
The European body fined Rangers FC €13,000 for incidents at their UEFA Champions League first knockout round tie against Spanish outfit Villarreal CF last month.

Crowd disturbances
UEFA's Control and Disciplinary Body imposed the fine on Rangers following the improper conduct of some of their supporters, notably the smashing of a window of the Villarreal team bus at the second-leg match in Spain on 7 March.

Not guilty
The body declared the Rangers fans not guilty of alleged discriminatory chants at both legs of the tie, which Villarreal won on the away-goals rule after the two sides had finished 3-3 on aggregate. The body’s decision can be appealed against within three days.

Social problem
In examining the alleged discriminatory chants, the Control & Disciplinary Body admitted that the nature of the song concerned – “Billy Boys” - related to a social problem in Scotland. The body also believed that the disciplinary decision in this case had to be taken in the context of Scotland’s social and historical background.

Studied evidence
After studying the evidence at hand as well as the statement of Rangers FC, the Control & Disciplinary Body conceded that supporters have been singing the song "Billy Boys" for years during national and international matches without either the Scottish football or governmental authorities being able to intervene. The result is that this song is now somehow tolerated.

Social and historical context
Given this social and historical context, the Control & Disciplinary Body said it considered that UEFA cannot demand an end to behaviour which has been tolerated for years. In view of the above, the Control & Disciplinary Body ruled that, despite the behaviour of its supporters, Rangers FC had not infringed Article 5 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (click here) and cannot be punished according to Article 6

Alles anzeigen

Der Einspruch gegen obiges Urteil durch die UEFA selbst:

Zitat von UEFA

UEFA appeal Rangers verdict

Tuesday 18 April 2006 by
UEFA has appealed against last week's disciplinary verdict regarding Rangers FC.

UEFA has appealed against a verdict by its disciplinary authorities concerning Scottish club Rangers FC and their recent UEFA Champions League first knockout round tie against Villareal CF.

First leg
The European body said it was appealing against last Thursday's decision by the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body to find Rangers not guilty of alleged discriminatory chants by the club's supporters at the first leg of the tie on 22 February. No date has yet been set for the appeal proceedings. UEFA has the power to appeal against decisions taken by its disciplinary body under Article 50 of the UEFA disciplinary regulations.

Return fixture
The reasoning for the decision with regards to the return fixture played in Spain on 7 March is due to be communicated to Rangers FC next week, and is therefore not concerned by this appeal. Villarreal won the tie on the away-goals rule after the two sides had finished 3-3 on aggregate over two legs.

Alles anzeigen

... und diesem Einspruch wird sodann stattgegeben und das erste Urteil geändert:

Zitat von UEFA

Rangers appeal upheld

Wednesday 24 May 2006 by
UEFA's appeal against its disciplinary authorities' verdict has been partially upheld.

UEFA's Appeals Body has today partially upheld the appeal made against the Control and Disciplinary Body's decision concerning Scottish club Rangers FC and their UEFA Champions League first knockout round tie against Villarreal CF.

Rangers fined
UEFA appealed against the decision on 12 April by the Control and Disciplinary Body to find Rangers not guilty of alleged discriminatory chants by the club's supporters at both legs of the tie, on 22 February at Ibrox and 7 March at El Madrigal. Rangers have been fined €19,500 and severely warned about their responsibility for any future misconduct by their fans in relation to sectarian and discriminatory behaviour.

Future directives
In addition, the Appeals Body will combine the disciplinary measures with directives safeguarding the correct execution of the judgement. The directives themselves will be communicated to Rangers along with the full written grounds for the disciplinary decision.

Alles anzeigen

Zu diesem letzten Urteil gab es dann einen Brief, den ein FFer wie folgt wiedergibt ... der Chef von FollowFollow, Mark Dingwall, hat ihn damals persönlich gesehen.

Zitat von Deedle von FF

UEFA then appealed its own decision. The full details were posted on here a couple of days ago. (The document is on on Linfield’s site.)

The key input consisted of comments from two unnamed academics* who said that ‘Fenian’ meant ‘Catholic’. Bishop Holloway and a director of NBM also gave their views.

UEFA did a U-turn and found Rangers guilty but didn’t impose a stand closure as originally demanded by the guy who brought the charge.

Just how did UEFA get in touch with the two professors? Perhaps a less naive way of putting it is who in Scotland contacted them and requested their help?

This was a stitch-up orchestrated in Scotland. The significance is that UEFA have accepted the view that TBB and Super Rangers are sectarian - they won’t go back on this.

Rangers then asked for clarification and UEFA sent a letter in poor English stating that ‘all forms of ‘Billy Boys’ songs’ were banned and the club had to make announcements at games to this effect.

* I reckon there’s a very short list of candidates.

Alles anzeigen

Damit war der Grundstein für eine ganz neue Debatte in Schottland gelegt worden, eine Debatte, die in Schottland geboren wurde, angeheizt wurde und nahezu ausschließlich völlig einseitig geführt wird.

Das Urteil nach dem Singen von TBB etc. beim Heimspiel gegen St. Jospeh`s im Juli, nachdem ein F.A.R.E. - Abgesandter der UEFA Bericht erstattet hat:

Zitat von UEFA

Disciplinary updates

by UEFA
Friday 23 August 2019 14.45CETUEFA
The UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body (CEDB) has announced the following decisions:

Match: UEFA Europa League first qualifying round second-leg match between Rangers FC and St Joseph's FC (6:0), 18 July in Scotland

Charges against Rangers FC:
- Racist behaviour (sectarian chants) - Art. 14 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (DR)

Decision:
The Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body has decided to order a partial closure of the stadium during the next one (1) UEFA competition match in which Rangers FC play as the host club, for the racist behaviour of its supporters. Rangers FC shall, as a matter of urgency, inform UEFA of the sector(s) to be closed, which shall at least comprehend 3,000 seats. The Scottish club is ordered to display a banner with the wording “#EqualGame”, with the UEFA logo on it. The banner shall be displayed in the sector(s) to be closed.

Alles anzeigen

13 Jahre nach dem ersten Urteil kommt es also sofort zum Ausschluss von Fans. Beim "zweiten" Vergehen. Es bleibt völlig offen, wie der F.A.R.E.-Mensch zu seiner Meinung kam und worauf er seine Behauptung von Rassismus und "sectarianism" begründet. Man hat einfach die gängige Behauptung, wir sängen mit welchen Liedern auch immer gegen die Iren und/oder Katholiken, "Fenian" wurde dahingehend einfach mal propaganda-gerecht umdefniniert.

Da es direkt mit diesem Lied zusammenhängt:

Zitat von Rangers FC

UEFA Charge
Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 19:00by Rangers Football Club

RANGERS has today informed UEFA’s Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body that the Club will not be requesting tickets for its next European away match.
The Club now faces an additional UEFA charge of racist behaviour for sectarian singing during the first leg of our Europa League play–off tie against Legia Warsaw last Thursday evening. We are liaising with UEFA in relation to this second charge.
The first charge came after the match against St Joseph’s at Ibrox on Thursday, July 18. A consequence of sectarian singing from section BF1 of the ground that evening is that UEFA ordered a partial closure of our stadium for tomorrow night’s crucial game. Those fans responsible for this partial closure of Ibrox Stadium need to understand that they are damaging our Club. If there is a further incidence at tomorrow night’s match this could lead to a ground closure.
The same applies to those who indulged in sectarian singing in Warsaw last week and that is why we have taken the decision to make UEFA aware that we will decline tickets for our next away match even though this means that, once again, the many must suffer because of the few.
This kind of behaviour has no place at Ibrox, or anywhere else where our many teams appear. Offenders must please stop. You are endangering your Club which has recently launched its Everyone Anyone project aimed at welcoming all to Ibrox. Those who wish to sing offensive songs must realise by now that they are insulting Rangers players, staff, and fellow fans. There is nothing clever, bold or even defiant in what this small number of supporters are doing.
By supporting Rangers in the correct way the rest of us must strive to protect our great Club. One way or another this offensive behaviour must end and it would be much more preferable if we stopped it ourselves, simply by behaving like true Rangers fans.

Alles anzeigen

Und die Reaktion des Club 1872 ...

Club 1872 would like to echo the message from Rangers regarding the damaging charges from UEFA both in relation to the St Josephs match at Ibrox and the recent game in Poland against Legia Warsaw.

It is clear that UEFA has taken a decision to class sectarian singing in the same bracket as racism and as a result has a clear and rapidly escalating framework of punishments for any club charged with such offences. This means that we will quickly arrive at the point where Ibrox may be closed for a home European tie if outbreaks of sporadic sectarian singing continue. This will not only effect tens of thousands of our own supporters but also the management team and players, who would have to operate in such circumstances. This is particularly frustrating as the atmosphere generated at European games at Ibrox this season has been largely free of such sectarian songs.

To be absolutely clear, songs, words and terms classed as sectarian by UEFA include ‘The Billy Boys’, any reference to “fenians” or any pejorative terms about Catholics or the Pope. The charges do not relate only to one song but to anything in the brackets above, including add ons to otherwise inoffensive songs.

We share some of the concerns over the lack of transparency, accountability and consistency in the operations of FARE. However, those concerns cannot be properly addressed while we are in a position where FARE can provide UEFA with video evidence of sectarian singing involving even a small number of Rangers supporters, as was the case in Warsaw.

Club 1872 fully supports Rangers’ Everyone Anyone campaign. It is absolutely clear in the discussions that we have had in the past few weeks and months that the club will not tolerate sectarian behaviour. We will continue to work with them to ensure that there is constructive and meaningful engagement with supporters on this issue going forward.

Every single Rangers supporter must now take responsibility for promoting a positive image of our club and support. Ibrox is one of the most impressive arenas in European football when it is full and noisy. We have a host of ways to generate that unique atmosphere without reverting to songs which will see the club sanctioned. Let’s get Ibrox rocking on Thursday night and roar our team into the groups stages of the Europa League.

http://club1872.co.uk/news/clu…tatement-on-uefa-charges/

BTW ...

Article 14 Racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda

1 Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion or ethnic origin, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

2 If one or more of a member association or club’s supporters engage in the behaviour described in paragraph 1, the member association or club responsible is punished with a minimum of a partial stadium closure.

3 The following disciplinary measures apply in the event of recidivism:

- a. a second offence is punished with one match played behind closed doors and a fine of € 50,000;

- b. any subsequent offence is punished with more than one match behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

4 If the circumstances of the case require it, the competent disciplinary body may impose additional disciplinary measures on the member association or club responsible, such as the playing of one or more matches behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

5 If the match is suspended by the referee because of racist and/or discriminatory conduct, the match may be declared forfeit.

6 The above disciplinary measures may be combined with specific directives aimed at tackling such conduct.
[/quote]
LINK - opens PDF file - https://www.uefa.com/Multimedi…3/06/2482306_DOWNLOAD.pdf

And while I am at it ...

Article 16 Order and security at UEFA competition matches

1 Host clubs and national associations are responsible for order and security both inside and around the stadium before, during and after matches. They are liable for incidents of any kind and may be subject to disciplinary measures and directives unless they can prove that they have not been negligent in any way in the organisation of the match.

2 However, all associations and clubs are liable for the following inappropriate behaviour on the part of their supporters and may be subject to disciplinary measures and directives even if they can prove the absence of any negligence in relation to the organisation of the match:

- a. the invasion or attempted invasion of the field of play;

- b. the throwing of objects;

- c. the lighting of fireworks or any other objects;

- d. the use of laser pointers or similar electronic devices;

- e. the use of gestures, words, objects or any other means to transmit a provocative message that is not fit for a sports event, particularly provocative messages that are of a political, ideological, religious or offensive nature;

- f. acts of damage;

- g. causing a disturbance during national anthems;

- h. any other lack of order or discipline observed inside or around the stadium
[/quote]
LINK above.

Hm ...

Zitat von UEFA

A Uefa document has surfaced online from back in 2013 when Ajax fans were charged for holding an offensive banner up during a game against Celtic.

The banner in question had the words ‘Fenian B**tards’ displayed. This put Ajax under the spotlight at the time and they were forced to close a section of their stadium as a result.

What we didn’t read, however, was the SFA defending Ajax during the disciplinary hearing back in 2013. Ajax wrote to the Scottish football
association about the term ‘Fenian’ and how they dealt with such matters in their domestic game.

Here is the full response which has been printed for public viewing on a Uefa Disciplinary document:

‘AFC Ajax contested the disciplinary inspector‟s argument that the word “Fenian” had discriminatory connotations. It pointed out that the Celtic FC supporters called themselves “Fenian” and took pride in the use of this word. Therefore, for Celtic FC supporters, the term

‘“Fenian” could be neither racist nor offensive and the expression used at the match concerned, i.e. “Fenian Bastards”, was not racist.

‘- The respondent also stressed that its supporters had used the disputed word “Fenian” because the Celtic FC supporters themselves had used it. Therefore, it had never crossed the opposing supporters‟ minds that it could ever be considered discriminatory.

‘- Contacted by AFC Ajax about the term “Fenian Bastards”, the Scottish Football Association’s disciplinary services manager had commented that half the Celtic supporters used the word “Fenian” as a badge of honour while the other half might consider it
unpleasant. The Scottish FA did not consider the word “Fenian” racist. It neither warned nor punished Celtic FC or Rangers FC for
calling each other “Orange Bastards” and “Fenian Bastards” respectively, since it considered such provocative words part of the game.’

This was submitted by Ajax as their defence at the time. Pretty startling stuff from our governing body. The flippant use of the term
Fenian and telling Ajax as a matter of fact how many Celtic supporters call themselves this or use it as a badge of honour is also astonishing.

Alles anzeigen

https://www.followfollow.com/f…-helps-defend-ajax.87808/

Bei Ajax hat die UEFA das dann auch durchgezogen:
Appeals Body:
The UEFA disciplinary inspector‟s appeal was partially admitted, with the Appeals Body orderingAjax to close sector 127 behind the goal for their next UEFA home match.The cross-appeal lodged by Ajax was rejected.

Allerdings sieht die SFA das nicht als bemerkenswert an.